What's Been Happening at the Community Forum Message Board

by Walter Geldart
December, 1998

As the motto of this Journal, The Enneagram and the MBTI, explains - it is our purpose to "explore human consciousness through a study of personality type". Messages posted at the Community Forum Message Board, a feature that was only recently added to the Journal, offers yet another dimension in the process whereby this exploration can take place. Individuals who seek to communicate with others no longer have to wait for the next issue to appear, as they would if the Journal were a typical hardcopy newspaper. The problems that are caused by overly long turn-around times between replies in a conversation are significantly reduced. Potential misunderstandings are addressed in a more expeditious fashion, generally resulting in less anxiety and smoother, more natural conversations.

In addition, the communications process itself is decentralized. Direct communication can take place between any two individuals, unhampered by unwieldy hardcopy technology. As the process is essentially unmediated, inadvertent editorial bias is also bypassed. Visitors to the Community Forum are now in the position to read dialogues as they unfold, and immediately join into the conversation as it is happening. People can interact freely on-line, ask questions, get answers, and offer their own insights in a truly 'interactive' fashion.

Glancing at the names of people who have posted messages at the Community Forum we read, from top to bottom: Theodore, Walter, Sandra, Lenore, Steve, Tal, John, Julian, Jen, Pat, Marty, Ted, Tim, Frost, and Andy. Looking at the number of messages posted in the Interests Areas, we see: Special Requests (4), Comment on Journal Articles (2), Theory/Philosophy (22), Type Diversity (4), Religion and Spirituality (4), Jungian Type (2), General (32). On average, one or two messages have appeared at the board daily - an increase in the quantity of interpersonal interactions over what we previously saw taking place via the comparatively slower 'letters to the editor' column.

But something QUALITATIVELY positive is happening too. People are meeting, speaking, listening, being present, and being civil with one another. If you take time to read the messages, you will find that the EMBTI Community Forum is succeeding in its mission to form a community with good interpersonal relations. First of all, people are treated with respect. Second, their ideas are explored respectfully as we each try to understand what the other person sees from his/her unique perspective. What you CAN'T see is the number of private email messages that went on behind the scenes - in the same spirit of mutual respect for people, and for the truth.

There is such a thing as truth, and it emerges in community when people use their own voices without fear. There are many people who read the board, but don't take time to leave messages. Some choose to email private messages in response. It will come as no surprise that I encourage you to post messages, and keep Gurdjieff's comment "have no fear" in mind. If the messages posted so far are any indication, what you have to say is likely to be interesting and beneficial to many others to whom you are not directly speaking. Please remember them in making your decision whether to participate in the discussion publically or privately!

What kind of ideas have been presented at the board? I'll briefly mention a few, trying to capture the flavor of the explorations - you can read the details yourself, of course, by going directly to the Community Forum.

  1. I responded to Lenore Thompson's dialogue with John, which took place in the second issue of EMBTI. I was able to confirm the fact that we met a few years earlier at the annual "Jung on the Hudson Seminar". We further explored common interests by email. Lenore tried but failed to post a message. If other people should have a similar problem please let me know and I'll help walk you through the process.

  2. Steve and I had a very interesting exchange of messages on his Enneagram for Actors. He uses a dialectic approach with the three Centers and the Hornevian Triads. I asked questions to understand his approach because it seemed to hold a lot of truth. I wanted to understand the scope of his definitions, because that determines the scope of his approach. His approach is indeed quite broad. Please read it and add to the discussion. Behind this discussion and others is a sense of mutual respect. Steve also had some problems posting messages - so he emailed them to me and I posted them. That works fine.

  3. Tal is a young contributor, and he had some great insights on a "cube model" of the enneagram. We had a very engaging discussion on the difference between Enneagram Points Nine and Zero. Tal is not bogged down by too much Enneagram and MBTI theory, so he was able to offer original perspectives. In one of our concluding emails, he took the completely fresh perspective of a sculptor to discuss enneagram personality types - in a meaningful way. Thanks Tal!

  4. Julian is a student who posted his message from North East Asia. MBTIŽ Type and Enneagram Type are helpful to him for understanding psychology. He wondered about Type for successful married couples. Julian has used both the MBTI and RHETI test instruments. We have got to know each other quite well. Perhaps some cultural aspects of type will be explored in the future.

  5. Jen, an INFP, was quite moved by Pat's work on Type Diversity in the Business World. This is an important area for future explorations. Jen was particularly interested in management from an INFP perspective, and Pat was able to recommend some authors.

  6. Tim likes the Jungian Persona assignment for Enneagram Point Three on the Enneagram of Consciousness. He suggested that Persona language might be helpful to capture the mechanisms of Defenses described by Wyman. Tim proposed each Enneagram Personality Type has its unique Jungian Persona that are Defenses, and I agreed. This is exactly what Jung meant. I consider the psychological Persona function to be at Point Three. I represent the physical character armor seen by an outsider - as another circle surrounding the nine point psychological enneagram circle. Visible body language traits are correlated with Enneagram Personality Types.

  7. Finally, our friend Andy was present with his usual free spirit and sharp mind. The last EMBTI described how Andy's keen questions led towards the discovery that Jungian functions pair up with the same attitudes - when trying to explain enneagram survey data. This helped to confirm John Fudjack's hypothesis regarding the impact of 'pure' type on the distribution of MBTI types across the enneagram, as well as my construction of the Enneagram of Consciousness with unipolar Jungian functions between points 8-9, 1-2, 5-6, and 4-7. The new MBTI language of 'whole type' opens the door a bit, permitting us to conceive of the second (or 'auxiliary') function as having both attitudes. This effect has been called a 'pure type' or a 'pseudo type' in the literature and in previous articles in this Journal.

    It is by free and open discussion that new insights are verbalized and eventually become part of a new paradigm. One of Andy's questions "MBTI + NLP = COOL" was not answered yet. Andy, I think your hunch is right - you have a pretty good batting average so far! I invite anyone with NLP background out there to respond - and then I'll join in. Dave, how about posting a message with your NLP expertise - if you pass by the Community Forum.

I am pleased to say that in the space of a few short months the art of on-line dialogue has been firmly established at the EMBTI, and a practice of mutual respect and understanding has been achieved. Our comprehension of human consciousness grows through this exploration.

I personally see the Jungian language of consciousness and Jungian functions of consciousness as being very important for describing the common ground between Enneagram Personality Types, Jungian Type, and MBTI Type. I believe that Jungian language fills an enneagram gap, as does the 'five function' model that I have elsewhere articulated for the Enneagram of Consciousness. Many enneagram personality type models merge the language for three Enneagram Centers with the three functions that these three Centers are said to represent. But three functions are not enough to include either Jung's four functions or Ouspensky's four functions. Actually five functions are necessary and sufficient for each Enneagram Center. The full range for each enneagram point (a Jungian Type - not an MBTI type) can be more readily understood when five functions are used with holistic fractal patterns.

Interestingly, in this light, we find that the official language used by many MBTI spokespersons has frequently not represented the holistic vision of Isabel Briggs Myers. I owe my introduction to Jungian psychology to the MBTI. It is thus very exciting to see the recent emergence of 'whole type' language in CAPT literature. Articles that have been presented at The Enneagram and the MBTI confirm this direction and provide some additional insight into the benefits of the whole-type movement. They also contribute to an understanding of what a 'holistic' approach to enneagram type might be. It may come as a surprise to some that the RHETI can be used to measure the eight Jungian functions (Fe, Fi, Ti, Te, Ne, Ni, Se, and Si) directly. The MBTI, of course, measures the four Jungian functions (F, T, N, and S). So both instruments can communicate with each utilizing a common-ground Jungian language, that is further enhanced, in my opinion, by the Geldart Enneagram of Consciousness.

But whether you agree or disagree with what I am saying here - or whether you want to comment on this topic, raise another issue, or present your own model for consideration and discussion - please let us know what you are thinking by posting a message.

So enjoy the visual and written art newly presented in this edition of the EMBTI, and also the articles. And until the next issue appears in early February, I'll be seeing you at the Community Forum!