The Guesses People Made About Ann and Steve's Types
Each work was accompanied by a statement written by the artist. In these statements the artists described themselves, their approach to art, and their thoughts, feelings, intentions and/or experiences about the pieces that they chose to display. Visitors to the site were not informed of the Enneagram or MBTI types of the artists, and were given an opportunity to guess about the artists' types by using a javascript form activated by clicking a button beneath their art work. In this article it is my purpose to share with you what visitors had to say, along with some further information about the artists. As this is the second phase in a continuing experiment with art and personality type, I have had the opportunity to make some general observations about the process in a previous article. These seem to continue to hold true, in general, but as the article remains easily accessible I will not repeat those observations here. This month we present two new pieces. Again we give you an opportunity to guess the artists' types before this information is publicly disclosed. Section One: 'Tree' by Steve Standeford
Steve, who has additional photographs available for viewing at his website, is an INFP/9. Male INFPs are relatively rare. The prototypical male in our society is an ESTJ, and the INFP is the diametrically opposite type. Pederson, a Jungian analyst, believes that as a result the INFP is amongst the most difficult of the MBTI types for a male in our society to be. In an email that we received from Steve after we posted his artwork and statement, he described himself in the following way -
I am a native of northeastern Oklahoma of Cherokee/English decent raised in a very small town, the oldest of three children. Raised by an ex-Marine Vietnam vet that was a little crazy in the 70's but has mellowed-out now and is a good grandpaw and Mom who was a granola girl (hippie) that liked to paint and sculpt. I got married and moved to Dallas after college for a DoD illustrator position drawing tanks and other doomsday devices. I have two sons. I am also a Cub Scout den leader...isn't that scary? Steve, a warm and friendly individual who is open and interested in the arts, apparently tries (quite successfully, it seems) to reconcile the two worlds of which he is a product, and to which he continues to belong by virtue of being an INFP in an ESTJ world. Steve seems to face the challenge with a quiet sense of humor, as the above passage suggests. Introverted feeling types (INFPs and ISFPS) quite frequently test as Enneagram Nines. They have the highest concentration of any of the MBTI types in the E9 group, and John and I see them as the MBTI type that is most 'prototypical' of the Nine. Enneagram Nines are, of course, the 'Peacemakers', who have a deep and abiding interest in mediation, and in effecting reconciliation. This goal is quite consistent with the priorities that a dominant introverted feeling function establishes - highly developed empathic skills, and an insight into how, deep within, we all participate in 'inter-being' with each other (a phrase coined by Buddhist monk Thic Nhat Hahn). The introverted feeling types, who are often described as 'good listeners' and individuals in whom 'still waters run deep', as Jung originally noted, are good team-builders. They characteristically influence the course of events quietly from a position they voluntarily assume somewhere outside of the spotlight of attention. INFP leaders will 'lead from behind the scenes', and by opting for democratic decision-making processes that spread the power fairly amongst participating parties. INFPs, who typically have an F-N-S-T preference order, use Ne (extraverted iNtuition) as the primary function with which they deal with outside world. This means that they can have an uncanny ability to pick up on 'opportunities' in the environment, especially ones that offer interesting new social (F-related) arrangements or possibilities. Where, as an artist, would one go to apply for a job 'drawing tanks and other doomsday devices'? I don't know, but I have a hunch that there is an interesting story behind how Steve wound up with that job! Many of the site visitors who made guesses about Steve's Enneagram and MBTI types based on his photograph, 'Tree', and his statement, accurately picked up on one or another of the features associated with being an INFP/9. Walter, also an INFP/9, correctly guessed that Steve was a 'P' type, "... because the background of the trees was messy like a 'P' desk. It didn't look like a 'J' orderly background". Although Walter incorrectly inferred from his observations that Steve is an INTP/5w4, they seemed nonethless quite accurate, and we can in retrospect see how they might actually fit into the portrait of an INFP/9 -
The attention is drawn to the realism of the tree - its bark, and outline moves up and to the left, and the patch of sun. It does invoke some feeling tone - and intuitions of the human limbs - so I added the Four Wing. It is obvious that the artist is using their Point Seven to provide his eyes visual information about the actual tree. If their primary type is Five, then the arrow to Seven provides this realistic data. INFPs are also statistically concentrated quite heavily in E4, so it is not an unreasonable leap that Walter made from observing the 'feeling tone' that the picture invokes, and the 'intuition' of human limbs, to his guess that Steve's work involves 4ish energies. Although Walter deduced his observation that Steve was using Point Seven energy from the 'realism' of the actual tree, extraverted iNtuition ( Ne) is prominent at E7, as John and I have pointed out, and it is the auxiliary function in the INFP. Tal, who is an INTP/4w5, also mistook Steve for a Four. But instead of seeing him as an INTP, Tal accurately discerned that he is INFP. Perhaps this is because he sensed a significant difference between Steve and himself - a diametrically opposed dominant function (F versus T). Referring to Steve's 'statement' about his art, Tal said,
The fascination with beauty and the melancholy that comes through the artist's statement when he talks about the past seem indicative of a 4. I would guess the brief discourse on his photography techniques indicates a 5 wing (concerned with the knowledge required to actuate the photo.)In contrast to Tal and Walter, Laura accurately put her finger on the fact that Steve is a Nine, not a Four. She also accurately guessed that he is an introverted feeling type, but mistakenly concluded that he is an ISFP, not an INFP. Alasdair also typed Steve ISFP. Perhaps she and Laura, like Tal and Walter, were thrown off track by the 'realism' of the photo or the interest in 'technique'. Those feature may also have been what mislead Rebekkah to guess ISTP/5, or John C., who guessed Steve to be an ESTJ/8. Frost, who like Laura guessed that Steve is an ISFP/9, 'picked up on the Fi, and overall introversion' exhibited by both Steve and Ann's work. Frost, who guessed that Steve (an INFP/9) is an ISFP/9, and Ann (an ISFP/4) is an INFP/4, astutely observes how the artist's medium might mislead us in our attempt to assess whether an individual is 'N' or 'S' -
The medium itself might affect how type comes across. Photography, by its very nature, may tend to look more reality-based, and thus tend to (falsely) suggest S. You don't see very much "abstract"/surrealistic/impressionistic photography (when compared to piantings/sculpture), in part because a) It requires extreme technical expertise to carry off such photography successfully; you have to know *a lot* about film exposure, shutter speeds, etc....to do the special effects stuff (so, not within the range of technical competancy for the typical hobbyist) and b) Even the professional photographier usually is hired to make fairly realistic photographs; people, for example, might want a unique view of the city, but they still usually want the buildings to look like buildings. Some photographers eventually get a name for themselves by doing more abstract or surrealistic work, but this is probably far rarer among photographers than among painters/printmakers/sculptors, etc.....Frost is a self-described '5w4 or 4w5 with 9' and an 'INXP', and is one of the writers whose work was featured in last issue's TYPE WRITER page and discussed in this issue's TYPE WRITER column. Steve has a slightly different perspective on photography -
I don't necessarily disagree with Frost's statement in its application to guessing my personality type, but I think one must look at photography equally as photojournalism and art. Avoiding the application of art terms like "abstract" "surrealistic" "impressionistic" to categorize photography because these terms all carry some visual baggage. Technical skill while handy is not required; some of the most "abstract" and "surrealistic" photographs I have ever seen are ones that were mistakes. Look at some of the great photographs from LIFE magazine for example, most are far from being of such technical difficulty that someone with a point-and-shoot could not have taken them. Photographers capture a moment in time, an emotion, or mood and maybe it is simply that they are "in the right place at the right time". Alfred Eisenstaedt said this once "The world we live in is a succession of fleeting moments, any one of which might say something significant." The "photographer/artist" is observing (or becomes aware) of an expression of reality. Reality is all of these terms "abstract" "surrealistic" "impressionistic", but I guess we need these terms to put reality into some sort of context. I can't help but wonder if this group of 'guessers', had they had the opportunity to put their heads together, might eventually have been able to accurately type Steve, even without additional information about him. They would have needed time to develop good working relationships, of course. But had they reached the final phase in the four-stage process that a group passes through on the way to becoming an effective team capable of utilizing all of the skills that each of its members possesses, I could easily imagine them accurately reaching a conclusion that none reached on his or her own. The four stages of group development, by the way - which are much talked about in organizational development and management circles, are often referred to as 'forming, storming, norming, and performing'. When individuals first come together to form a group, each wrestles with questions about what level of commitment they are willing to invest in the group, the roles they will play, and the kinds of inter-relationships they want to establish. Individuals at this stage are often reluctant to become involved and hang-back, and do not yet perform well as a group. When the group enters the second stage, 'storming', there is a lot of jockeying for position and trying out of roles and responsibilities. The group is still in a poor position to perform adequately, as much of its energy is devoted to internal matters. Strong members can take over, and will sometimes effectively silence weaker but potentially productive members. The third stage of development, 'norming', refers to a process whereby individual participants come to consensus about the norms that will prevail in the group, and begin to feel comfortable with their role(s) in group process. At this stage they begin to become ready for the fourth stage, in which they are able to 'perform' complex group tasks in an effective and efficient way. I take the time to mention these four stages of development here because I think that it is a helpful framework to use in assessing what is happening at this website in general, as people begin to gather and work together. I also wonder if the 'art experiment' that are conducting in this and the TYPE WRITER section might at some time be extended in a slightly different direction by asking a group of 'guessers' to come together (perhaps via the chatroom) in order to discuss their guesses BEFORE the types of the artists or writers are publicly revealed. Just a thought. But lets turn back to the matter at hand, and take a look at what people had to say about Ann's work. 'Sun, Water, Pines', by Ann Monroe
In her statement, as you may recall, Ann described herself as having had an interest in creating art for several years now, but having only recently turned her attention seriously to a career in art. Pictures of Ann, including one of a rather interesting tatoo that she has, are available at her personal webpage, where you can also find lists of her favorite movies, colors, CDs and other personal preferences, and further examples of her art and creative writing. The site includes an interesting hypertexted collection of poems, 'Mango', divided into three sections, 'skin', 'pulp', and 'seed'. Although we included a link to Ann's site in her 'statement', we do not know how many of those who guessed her types visited the site before making their guesses. Ann's original interest seems to have been in the MBTI, but she agreed to taking the RHETI for the purpose of participating in this experiment. Having scored highest in E4, E5, and E9 (in that order), Ann related most strongly to the description of E4. "I guess that makes me 'the bohemian' [E4]", she concluded, "and I'm not really surprised". Neither were we, as Ann's poetry (available at her site) was filled with the kinds of symbols, language, and concerns that one often finds in 'Romantic' (with a capital 'R') poetry. She is concerned with 'imagination', 'the void', 'the mystical' and 'soul'. In her poems numerous lines of a Romantic fascination with the undifferentiated. She talks of 'plunging deep instead of shallow / deep instead of dead', of 'beings of vision' and 'inspiration', of 'emptiness' and 'nothingness' and '[being] stoned on the mile-high realization that home is now, is nowhere...', of 'the blank emptiness', and of 'the inner space', that is 'the real space'. Here is one of her poems, called 'Identity' -
core-being - So it was not surprising that Ann should relate well to E4. Nor was it surprising that she could have tested at one point as an INFJ, as the INFJ is most highly concentrated in E4. And many of the concerns of the 'Romantic' are the consequence of developed 'introverted iNtuition'. But Ann had recently decided that her identification as an INFJ was mistaken. As she told us early on,
... i should let you know that i no longer consider myself an INFJ. after reading more about the MBTI and keirsey's work, i feel that my test results were incorrect, and that i'm actually an ISFP. ISFPs do occur in E4 more often than would be expected if distribution were random (although not as frequently as INFPs - or INFJs, who lead the pack), so that was not terribly surprising. But whereas the INFJ is thought to have Ni as a dominant function and Fe as the auxiliary, the ISFP has Fi as dominant and Se as auxiliary. For the INFJ, Se is inferior; while for the ISFP, Ni is the tertiary function. Although Ann's poetry often expresses Ni, much of the rest of her site seems to reflect Se concerns. Some of her poetry even seems to reflect the tension between N and S that is found in many creative individuals. Take the following poem, for instance, called 'Ideas like Candy' -
you are fickle, Imagination, 'new ideas', are likened to sensory experiences - licking candy and so forth. This could be taken as a beautiful description of the way sensory impressions dissolve under the intense focus of introverted iNtuition. Those who guessed Ann's type did not, of course, have all of this information at their disposal. Nevertheless, from Ann's painting and her statement, Tal (himself an INTP/4w5) guessed that she is an ESFP and an E3. Not an unreasonable conjecture, given the fact that ESFPs share extraverted sensing and introverted feeling with ISFPs and also have much definitionally in common with E3s (which is why John and I originally took ESs as 'prototypical' of E3). Interestingly, Tal's first guess about Ann's Enneagram Type correctly cast her as an E4, although he subsequently changed his mind, opting for the more sensory E3! He says -
Upon first impression, I thought the artist might be a 4 or 6--the sun peeking out from the darkness around seemed to indicate to me a fear of the surrounding environment and a hope for a brighter, distant future. Once I read the artist's statement, I realised I'd probably read too much into it, seeing as the painting was based on a photograph. The statement made me think the artist is more probably a 3..." Frost (4w5 or 5w4 and INXP), correctly identified Ann as an E4. And although Frost also picked up on Ann's Fi, and her introversion, she guessed Ann to be an INFP, not an ISFP. Although others, as we shall see, accurately placed Ann as an E4, none were tempted to see her as an INFJ, corroborating Ann's own feeling about herself as an ISFP. Alasdair correctly identified Ann as an ISFP. And Laura, although she also correctly identified Ann as an ISFP, thought that she might be a Nine. Was Laura picking up on the fact that Ann had scored third highest in E9? Or was she tacitly basing her guess on the fact that ISFPs are statistically the most frequent MBTI type in E9? Like Laura, Ewan guessed that Ann is an ISFP and a Nine. But he also mentioned that he thought that she had a strong 'link to E4':
The colours are complimentary not in opposition. Also note the foreground is more solid while the background is murkier. I think of this as a map of the unconscious - Those more subjective, emotional (expressionist) experiences lie deeper down. The whole picture is more depictive of harmony than conflict, therefore the painter is more likely to be an enneagram No.9 (The PeaceMaker type) with a link to 4: (The Artist). I am an INFP - emotionally, I liked it but thought about what it meant - really it's an objective depiction of an unconscious subjective energy. This is why i am assuming the painter is an ISFP. It seems too serene for it to be an extraverted piece. Ewan, by the way, describes himself as a 19 year old first year Arts/Communications student who is considering changing his major to psychology ("...if I could find a course that didn't involvea good knowledge of Maths") because "people are cool". He tells us that he has been "sucking the life out of Typologies for about a month and a half", and describes himself as an 4w5 and "an INFP, on the edge of ISFP, and INFJ", not unlike Ann! "I like theory", he adds, "but only when i can apply it to a real-world goal; and in this instance i suppose it's understanding people; which at a base level is about avoiding conflict, as are most of my actions", which seems to imply a proclivity toward E9. When we pressed him for more information about his process, he wrote the following interesting description -
I would say my conscious processing of 'the sensory data' was: Rebekkah, an INFP 4w5, was the only one to guess both of Ann's types accurately. When we asked her to comment on how she did that, this was her reply -
I'll comment, but I really don't know how I arrived at the conclusion. I suprised myself actually, since I consider myself new to psych type and have no formal training. I guess I compared particularly the statement about the way she views and creates her artwork with a statement that I might make about my own. The biggest difference between my own type and the type of this particular artist is that she is an "S" and I am a definite "N" with "S-like" capabilities. The fact that we both strive to reproduce reality and "what we see" became obvious to me, but I would be more inclined to tell of the finished product and what it contributes more so than to tell of every detail within the project as this artist seemed to do. Therefore, I concluded that she was an "S". I arrived at the "Four" when the artist claimed that she wanted her work to contain pieces of herself and also because of the contrasting of bright sky in the work itself with the darkness of the lake and trees. We Fours love any kind of exaggeration whether it be with lights and darks in a work of art or in life itself :)" Like Ewan, Rebekkah compared what Ann said and did with her own reactions. As I mentioned in last month's issue, this approach seems to work well when the guesser and the artist in fact have similar types, but can be very misleading when they do not. In retrospect it is easier to tell when the guesser was correctly picking up on similarities as opposed to merely 'projecting'. But we must remember that when individuals are actually in the process of guessing they have no independent way of knowing whether they are in the former or the latter situation - and so are not in a position to know if basing their guesses on their own case will mislead or help them! It bears mentioning that it is very difficult to guess an individual's types on the basis of information as scanty as that which is provided in this experiment. We surely do not mean to imply that it should be possible to do so, or that people have failed if they do not correctly guess the reported types of the individual artists. The fact that the information provided in this exercise is intentionally slim is what makes it a challenge, and, we hope, fun. It also provides us all with the opportunity to learn more about the processes that we use in typing others, by asking us to perform that activity under conditions that strain our powers. So to all of those who have ventured a guess - thanks for playing! And to those who have volunteered to subject their work to this kind of scrutiny, our heartfelt gratitude goes out to you! Know that we sincerely appreciate your art and poetry, and wish you the best in all of your endeavors!
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