Where Do Our Visitors Come From? Since the 'collected papers' section was first posted in late February of 1998 the three front pages of this site have been accessed nearly 30,000 times. With the advent of the 'Journal' in August, the number of visits increased dramatically. More recently we have added a section of the site devoted to personality type, organizational form, and the structure of consciousness. While still under development, it has nonetheless also begun to attract visitors. Approximately 100 individuals now visit the three respective front pages of this suite of web-sites each day. Although we don't count the number of times the numerous other backpages at the site are directly accessed, our server report that some of these are amongst the most frequently accessed pages that they currently offer. During the past year individuals from seventy countries have visited 'The Enneagram and the MBTI' - Argentina, Australia, Austria, Barbados, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Jamaica, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malaysia, Malta, Maldives, Mexico, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Oman, the Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, the Russian Federation, South Africa, South Korea, Qatar, Singapore, Slovenia, the Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Trinidad and Tobago, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, and the United States, Uruguay, Venezuela.	What Kind of Communications Are Currently Taking Place at This Site? We receive approximately 500 emails per month generated by material presented at the site, and a half dozen hardcopy letters. In addition, there is correspondence that Ros and Walter handle on their own in the course of managing the 'Type Writer' page and the 'Community Forum'. The messages that we received regarding the written and visual works of art that are displayed in the Journal are not included here in the 'Letters to the Editor' column. Excerpts from visitor emails regarding these topics can be found in the respective sections devoted to these concerns - in the 'Typewriter' and 'Art and Personality' sections. We have also chosen not to include messages here that were posted at the Community Forum Message Board - because they continue to be DIRECTLY available there. In a brief overview of what has been happening at the board, Walter has summarized some of the topics that have been addressed there, and has eloquently described the kind of dialogue that has begun to occur there. As he mentions, it is impossible to include - either at the board or here - the numerous email conversations that have taken place as a result of some messages posted at the board, or some of the email exchanges that have led to postings. Nor have we included confidential conversations initiated by individuals interested in coming to a better understanding of their own Enneagram and MBTI types and the relationship between the two systems as they experience these manifesting within themselves. There is also little point in reproducing the requests that we receive for technical assistance, unless we feel that others will benefit from the answers. A few individuals each month seek assistance in downloading the condensed pdf file that contains the entire 'collected papers' site for off-line reading, make requests to be included on various mailing lists, and seek help with how to use the message board. We also continue to receive, on a daily basis, responses to the 33 question experimental indicator (FD33) that we put up in August. Over 1,000 individuals have taken the time to fill out the experimental 33-question preference order indicator since then. We treat the forms that they submit as confidential communications and will not share individual responses publicly, but will report further on our findings in the future (a preliminary report was posted in the Second Issue of the Journal). So what HAVE we included here in the 'Letters to the Editor' section? A number of messages that do not fit within the other communication formats that we offer - short messages that are left at the guestbook, ones emailed to us directly from the site, or hard-copy letters sent via the post office. When these initiate a two-party correspondence that may be beneficial to our readership at large, however, we try to include them in the 'Conversations' column - in this issue we have chosen to continue to run correspondence that took place between John and Pat Wyman in late 1998.
We Still Need Your Help in Designing Email 'Lists' and 'Chat Room Discussions'. To date, the chatroom facility has been most successfully used only for small (two or three person) meetings that require 'real time' responses - meetings, for instance, in which specific decisions need to be made, with simultaneous input required from various parties. We are, however, considering whether to schedule some get-togethers on specific topics at the chatroom and need to know what kind of groups you'd be interested in participating in. The Chat Room has other advantages over alternate forms of electronic communication - such meetings can be made 'private' at the Delphi facilities that we use, and a transcript of the discussion can be logged and emailed to participants - obviating the need for someone to 'take minutes' of the proceedings. And there is something nice about getting a response immediately, in 'real time'. We are also considering creating email 'lists' for those who would like to participate in email discussion groups on specific topics or issues, or individuals who may have an email account but limited internet access. If you have a topic related to the Enneagram and MBTI that you would like to form a discussion group around, either via email list or at the private chatroom, please let us know. We are compiling a list of topics, and the names of interested parties. So far, here are the ideas that some individuals have suggested - clergy members who use the Enneagram and MBTI for counseling purposes, writers with an interest in discussing personality type and the written word, and organizational development consultants who want to explore the relationship between personality type and organizational forms. Chatroom meetings and/or email 'lists' are often most productive when attended by a SMALL number of participants with similar interests. Email us if you have a topic that you'd be interested in discussing in one of these formats, or if you are interested in leading a discussion on a particular topic.

Messages/Letters (received since last issue):

June 7, 1999 Dear Editors, I'm in the middle of reading your '94 article,Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization. I certainly appreciate your thesis and find the article very interesting. There are any number of ways we could and should use to diminish the prevalence of "technological thinking" (to use shorthand.) Saying we live in an ESTJ world is one sound way of putting it. In your article, you state, "an argument may be made that the distinction between an attitude that "seeks closure" and one that "remains open" is not a primary factor on which to base a theory of personality..." (Section Two) According to the Keirsey Character sorter, this ENFP looks like this: E - 60% N - 100% F - 60% P - 90% My colleague is apparently E - 60% N - 60% F - 90% P - 90% Is this a possibility? If your thesis is that primary functions are the ones that are most developed, (i.e., your five levels -- I like them) then the answer would have to be no. (Unless there is no correlation between percentage on Keirsey and your levels.) Thanks for an interesting site. A.P. PS - I believe that one's Pness or Jness is crucial in determining which people can live or work closely together since what stresses Js relaxes Ps and vice versa. The E-I dimension is much less important. Dear A.P. - Yes, a person who seeks closure will have different work habits from someone who is not inclined to seek closure. We once taught a graduate course on type and organization, which was scheduled to take place very early in the morning. When only half the participants showed up on time and one particularly impatient student started loudly complaining about the others we ventured a guess that all of those who were present were 'Js' and all those who were not yet present were 'Ps', and this turned out to be the case. We're reluctant to say, however, that 'E' and 'I' are LESS important. The differences may not be apparent, but they can have an impact and be just as grating on folks. It is possible for someone to score higher on 'F' than 'N', and yet still come out an ENFP. This is because in the MBTI and its clones the scoring is done in the following way. The first letter (either E or I), in combination with the last letter (either P or J) determines whether the letter in the second column (either S or N) or the letter in the third column (either T or F) will be the dominant function. If a person is an EP or IJ, the letter in the second column will be the dominant function. If a person is an EJ or IP, the letter in the third column will be the dominant function. But your question brings up a good point. The MBTI/Keirsey doesn't DIRECTLY test for the dominant function. It INFERS which of the two functions that come out on top (from the S/N and T/F scales) is the dominant function from how the individual's I/E score and J/P score. Embedded in the procedure is the ASSUMPTION that an EP or IJ cannot prefer T or F, and an IP or EJ cannot prefer N or S. In contrast, we believe that it is possible for an individual to be an Introvert, with an Ni-Fe-Si-Te preference order (usually associated with INFJ), and yet score 'P'. Indeed, we know a number of individuals who score like this. But such an individual will, because of the way the MBTI works, score as an INFP, despite the Ni-Fe-Si-Te preference. This is why we've begun talk about iNfps (introverts with Ni-Fe-Si-Te and a 'P' score) and inFps (introverts with Fi-Ne-Ti-Se and a 'P' score), instead of INFPs, and about iNfjs (introverts with Ni-Fe-Si-Te and a 'J' score) and inFjs (introverts with Fi-Ne-Ti-Se and 'J'), instead of INFJs. There are thus actually four possibilities, not two. This is actually a very complex matter, and although we've addressed this problem in a few places on this site, we hope to get some time in future months to lay the argument out in greater detail. Since the 'problem' is deeply embedded in the complex procedures for calculating the type name from the four scales, it is often difficult for the individual who is familiar with the way the MBTI works to shift assumptions - or to see that the assumptions that underwrite the MBIT (that an 'I' who scores N, F, and 'P' must have dominant F) are NOT legitimate 'a priori' assumptions (they cannot be claimed 'by definition') and require empirical proof.

June 7, 1999 Dear Editors, Currently studying MBA with Open University. Used MBTI and found I was an INTP, unnervingly correct. Interested in other inventories for analysis and how they correlate. An interesting and informative site. Keep it up. J.R. Dear J.R. - Thanks for the kind words. Being an INTP ain't so bad. :) Have you checked out the Enneagram?

June 7, 1999 Dear Editors, In the Enneagram book I read, I found my type to be either a 4 with a five-wing or a 5 with a 4-wing. My MBTI is an INTJ and I see that INTJ falls both in the 4 and the 5 in your studies. Is this not evidence supporting the wing-theory of the enneagram? G.F. Dear G.F. - We don't think that it does constitute evidence for that theory, actually. Sorry. Check out the following two tables. For each MBTI type they show all the EnneaTypes for which any given MBTI type tests in greater than random numbers. For instance, the INFJ shows up in higher than random concentrations only in E4, E1, and then E5 (in that order - with highest concentration in E4). In all of the other Enneazones it shows in concentrations less than would be expected if distribution were random. Only for the ENFJ, ESFJ, INTP, ISTJ and ESFP (5 out of 16 MBTI types) do people score second-highest in one of their 'wings', and in none of the MBTI types do both wings show up. INFJ INTJ ENFP ENTP INFP ISFP ENFJ ESFJ E4 E5 E7 E3 E9 E2 E2 E2 E1 E1 E2 E8 E4 E9 E1 E3 E5 E3 E1 E6 E4 E3/4 E6 E8 E7 INTP ISTP ENTJ ESTJ ISTJ ISFJ ESTP ESFP E5 E5 E8 E8 E1 E3/9/1 E3 E7 E6/7 E9 E1 E3 E5 E2 E7 E8 E7 E3 E1 E6 E6 E8 E2 E2 E6 E8 E9 People don't characteristically score second highest in their 'wings' on the RHETI either. (E9s don't score high in E8 or E9, for example). So what, then, does it mean for an E9 to 'have an E8 wing' or 'have an E1 wing'? Simply that that E9 prefers E8 over E9 or vice versa? So? Sorry to say, but neither is 'triad theory' a favorite of ours - basically because the triads don't jive with how the MBTI types (and their associated dominant functions) distribute across the Enneagram, as we've pointed out in a section on 'data lenses' in one of our papers, and a section on 'triad theory' in another. For instance, people with Feeling as their dominant function show up MOST frequently in E9, amongst all of the Enneatypes, but E9 is not considered to be in the 'feeling triad'.

June 4, 1999 Dear Editors, Please let me know if there is a way of getting a hard copy of the journal articles. They are most interesting. B.N. Dear B.N. - Unfortunately there isn't, at this point in time. But we are working on it. When we decided to make our work electronically available on the internet, it was in order to make it more easily and quickly accessible, and to cut back on the time and cost involved in copying and sending the articles via the post. Having converted to an electronic format, we no longer keep hardcopy versions.

June 1, 1999 Dear Editors, I am interested in downloading the PDF file on the 'Dimensions of Human Space' site, when it is ready. I have read your Nov 1995 article on the Five Levels of the Feeling Function. Are there further articles to be found on the web relating to T, S and N? If so, I would be grateful if you could point me to them. Regards, B.D. Dear B.D. - We'll be glad to send you the pdf file when it is ready, but please don't expect it any time soon. We've had to put the creation of pdf files on back burner, for lack of time. We do hope to post, as you suggest, further papers at the Organization and Type site, on the 5 levels of the other functions. In the meantime you might want to check out the summaries in the Javascript Tool, at "http://tap3x.net/ENSEMBLE/typeframe.html". Just click on any of the MBTI types in the uppermost window. Then click on the 'S', 'N', 'T' or 'F' that appears in the top left hand window, and scroll through the 5 levels that appear in the bottom left window. We look forward to hearing what you think of this material.

May 31, 1999 Re: Evaluating the Myers Briggs Personality Typology Dear Editors, I find your website fascinating concerning your work with Myers-Briggs... However, I am not familiar enough with the actual questions that lead one to be categorized and therefore find it difficult to follow along with some of the arguments. Is there, to your knowledge, a website I can access to do the personality test and have some background into the testing process and therefore the concerns regarding the results. T.Q. Dear T.Q. - Thanks. The MBTI doesn't have a free site that you can go to in order to take the test; nor do they provide copies that can be self-administered. You must arrange to have it administered by someone who is certified to do so. If you don't want to do that, you can get some idea of the test by taking a clone - like the one in Keirsey's book or Lenore Thomson's. And even though Gifts Differing, the classic work by Myers and Myers, does not reveal the test questions, you would get quite a good feel for the assumptions that underly the questions.

May 28, 1999 Dear Editors, Hi! I'd like to submit some art to your art page, how would I go about doing that? I love your site. :) M.F. ENFP 6w7 Dear M.F. - Great! We've been so busy with our Mandala series that we had to put the art page on the back burner for a while. But we do intend to get return to it - not in the June Issue, but in the following one (at the end of the summer) and would love to have you participate. You'd need to send us a graphics file (with a 'jpg' extension) that contains the piece you want to display. It should be less than 50K in size (preferably around 25K). In addition, you'd need to send a brief write-up about how you go about doing what you do when you create them. Why do you do it? What's important to you about it? That kind of thing. We also need to know your MBTI type and your Enneagram type, but you've already enclosed that in you letter.

May 22, 1999 Dear Editors, I'm interested in getting the download of your [Organization and Type] site when it's ready. I'm also interested in studying all this myself, the MBTI and other personality typings. I've got a BAppSc (Mathematics), specialising in stats, and I work in market research; social research is a big area of interest to me. I've been really thinking of going back to study. I'd obviously have to study psych to get into the personality stuff, I guess I'm just wondering at what level of study do you really get into this? Undergrad, masters, doctorate level? G.P. Dear G.P. - It depends on how you intend to apply what you learn. What do you want to do with the knowledge and experience you acquire? You can study on your own, take workshops to learn more about these systems, or acquire certificates to administer the tests. Or you can pursue a degree in psychology, as you suggest.

May 18, 1999 Dear Editors, I find this electronic information sharing useful. It will give me the opportunity to learn about both MBTI and Enneagram from the experts knowledgeable in this field. N.S. Alcohol & Drug Abuse Commission Dear N.S. - Couldn't help but notice your profession. Did you happen to read Michael Huber's pieces in recent issues?

May 16, 1999 Dear Editors, Outstanding job. Thank you for sharing. M.K., Ph. D Center for Counseling and Hypnotherapy Dear M.K. - You're welcome! Glad you find it useful.

May 13, 1999 Dear Editors, Please inform me when new issues of the Journal are posted. I have recently been studying personality and am beginning to incorporate the idea of the enneagram and MBTI into my doctoral dissertation. R.N. Dear R.N. - Good luck with it! Please consider sharing your results with us.

May 9, 1998 Dear Editors, One of the hot topics in the MBTI currently is the Judging vs. Perceiving preference. There could be at least 4 orientations in this scale: Extroverted Judging Extroverted Perception Introverted judging Introverted Perception The MBTI seems to have chosen to ignore Introverted judging/perception. This basically results in the INTP, an introverted judger, being called a P, because Introverted judging is ignored. And the INTJ, an introverted perceiver, is called a J because introverted perception is ignored. Extroverted Judging functions = EF,ET Extroverted Perception functions = ES,EN Introverted Judging functions = IF,IT Introverted Perception functions = IS,IN The mbti chooses to see the J/P preference only in respect to the outer world and this causes a great deal of misunderstanding. K.G. Dear K.G. - We see that you are concerned about the validity of the J/P concept in the MBTI. This is a complex question, actually, which we prefer not to get into here at the level of detail that would be necessary. Some of the material at this site addresses this issue, however, and more will be posted in the future. We first attempted to articulate concerns about the J/P designation in Part II of our 1994 paper entitled, 'Toward A Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization'. Those concerns led us to believe in the possibility of 16 additional 'types' - the iNfp, for example, who is Introverted, with an Ni-Fe-Si-Te preference order (usually associated with the INFJ) and an inclination toward 'remaining open' (P) as opposed to 'seeking closure' (J). We identified individuals who were representatives of these 'non-conventional' types, and sought to create a quick way of identifying such persons (hence the FD33 that we developed). For we realized that if iNfps, who resembled INFJs, were testing on the MBTI as INFPs, this would cause a certain amount of 'noise' in studies that sought to understand how MBTI type distributed across the Enneagram. We will go into this matter further at the site mentioned above, where we have listed a paper called 'Critiquing the MBTI', which we haven't yet posted. Perhaps it will answer some of your concerns.

May 8, 1999 Dear Editors, Thank you for the welcoming information. I look forward to checking out the new article and chatting. A question which I have is how to obtain a copy of the recent article done by a psychologist from Consulting Press in Palo Alto utilizing both the MBTI and the Enneagram in a psychotherapeutic model which she created. It was published last year (1998) in the APA Journal of Personality Type. If you know her name or have a phone number, fax number or e-mail address for consulting press, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you. J.B. Dear J.B. - Do you mean Pat Wyman? If you're not sure, you may want to check out the long correspondence we had with her to see if this is the individual you're talking about - its at "http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/j3dialogues.html"

May 3, 1999 Dear John Fudjack and Patricia Dinkelaker, I want to thank you both you for providing an excellent website. It is most informative, thought provoking and inspiring. In particular, I think your paper, "Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization", is the best article I have read on the internet. Excellent! It raises many interesting points, and acknowledges the I, N, F and P sides of life, ways of looking at the world that have characteristics and skills, gifts, associated with them that can bring a complementary contribution to any organization or indeed, any situation in which there is a predominance of E, S, T and J, There was the issue of scapegoating, that the INFP is the type most likely to be scapegoated in the ESTJ predominant organization, as well as others who share I, N, F or P. Your article in effect brought the darkness that the I, N, F and P have been made to bear into the light, by showing that they have skills and abilities that can bring great contribution to any organisation. I share three of the four above preferences - I, N and P - as my type is INTP, and so I could identify with what you have written. I enjoy your web site, and thank both of you for your time and energy to provide such informative - thought provoking, inspiring information, and a crowning example of what the internet should be. I would be most interested in downloading a free copy of the PDF file of the website that includes the 'Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type' paper. Sincerest Regards, Jason Dear Jason - Thank you for the kind words. Glad to know that it was helpful. Unfortunately, it may be a while before we finish the website you are talking about. After we do, we will turn our attentions to creating a PDF file for it.

April 22, 1999 Dear Editors, I have this question. I do understand the difference between introversion en extraversion (the way you get energized). But what I don't understand is the difference between introverted thinking (Ti) and extraverted thinking (Te). I mean how can one think introvert or think extravert? The same goes for Si, Se, Fi, Fe, Ni, Ne. Could you please give me an explanation? You can reach me at [deleted] in the Netherlands, Europe. Thank you, J. A. Dear J.A. - Although Jung originally spoke of FOUR functions, more and more emphasis is being put lately on the so-called 'eight functions' (Si, Se, Fi, Fe, Ni, Ne, Ti, Te). It is often helpful to distinguish the characteristic manner in which a particular function (say 'T') operates when it is directed 'outwardly' (when one uses 'T', for example, to make plans and manipulate the outer world using cause-effect relationships) and compare it to how it operates when directed 'inwardly' (when one devises a conceptual 'system' that accounts for how things are, and plays with the concepts internally). And for individuals who are interested in correlating the MBTI and the Enneagram, it is tempting to think in terms of eight functions, because it is easier to try to match nine enneagram points with EIGHT functions rather than with four. But we believe that it is a mistake to describe these eight as 'functions', as it tends to REIFY them, and this leads to problems - not the least of which is the unnecessary and unseemly proliferation of the basic DIMENSIONS of the human mind. The example that we frequently use is that the four functions are like four kinds of automobile (lets say - Mercedes Benz, Chevy Truck, Volkswagen Beetle, and Yugo). You can, of course, use any of these four to take a trip, and the trip will be a different experience in each. Furthermore, in each you can travel in a northerly or a southerly direction - and depending upon which direction you choose, will wind up at VERY different destinations. But that doesn't mean that you now have eight models of car.

April 21, 1999 Dear Editors, Hello, I would like to know more about the INFJ's capability of "psychic symbiosis". I am looking for coping strategies once the symbiosis has been created and causes distress to one or both parties. How can it be controlled or limited? Do you know of anyone who has explored this topic? L.D. Dear L.D. - By 'psychic symbiosis' are you referring to 1) an individual's ability to empathize with another person, effecting a deeply felt psychological (or even 'telepathic') connection; or, 2) an inclination toward becoming overly-dependent and/or confused about relationship boundaries? Perhaps the two are related. INFJs seem to be able to key into the feeling tone of a group, and into the feeling states of others. They are sensitive to subtle nuances in these 'feeling fields' - to the extent that they sometimes complain of their own feeling states as being 'infected' by what others are feeling. INFJs are also sometimes described as natural 'shamans' - mediums who, by assimilating, carrying, and internally working through the problems in a group, can bring relief to it. According to statistics we've seen, a high percentage of Jungian therapists, who are contemporary western 'shamans', are INFJs. The boundary-problems that arise as a result of such work have been studied in the 'transference' and 'counter-transference' phenomenon that occurs in psychotherapy. Perhaps by understanding how helping relationships of this sort can begin to go awry as a result of transference, one can begin to come to an understanding of how 'dependency' and 'counter-dependency' might arise in individuals and the ordinary INFJs with whom they are in relationship.

Apr 13, 1999 Dear Editors, Thanks - I've been reading Angelo Spoto's critique of the MBTI and found your comments similarly very helpful in providing a broader perspective on the organizational uses of the Typology. C.M. Organizational Consultant Dear C.M. - You're Welcome. Glad to have been of help. There is so much still to learn from Jung's typology, and 'critiquing' it is one way of milking it for all its worth. The system that Jung created, and the MBTI further developed and popularized, is really a rather remarkable achievement - in a way that was captured by a dear friend of mine in a remark that he made about another equally important figure in Western psychology, Sigmund Freud. At the time, I was reading through the entirety of Freud's works - all twenty-something volumes - in an attempt to track down what he meant by 'attention', and how this related, in his view, to 'consciousness' and 'feeling'. With deep respect for Freud, my friend and mentor (and also my partner in this crime, this exploration), said, 'You know, Freud is probably wrong about everything. Every specific detail of his work will, I'm sure, be eventually challenged and discarded as false. But there is still something that is so right about the bigger picture, the composite or aggregate. It is a paradigm that has changed our way of thinking forever.' It seems, as somebody once said, that sometimes you can win the war even, paradoxically, after having lost all the battles. Perhaps this is how enduring change really occurs. John

April 1, 1999 John, I've just finished reading the first three parts of the Mandala series, and I just had to write down some of the thoughts it's inspired. I can identify with nearly everything that has been talked about so far. I identified a lot with the two pitfalls associated with the two halves of the process of individuation etc. described in part one and two. I have personally experienced what was described as the "psychic 'black-out'", and have also experienced the "inflation" that is referred to in the second half of the process. I'm also looking forward to reading about the Tree of Life in the Kabbalah as a mandala, because I can really see that. Of particular interest to me was the sections in part three that referred to numbers. I've long had an interest in Pythagoreanism and the ennead, though it's been difficult for me to find much written about it. The spiritual and psychological meanings associated with numbers intrigues me, and comparing what was presented here with my limited understanding of the qualities of numbers has stimulated some ideas that I wanted to write down and share with you, even though they may not directly bear relevance to what was written and referred to in the articles. I've understood the number one as being more of a singularity, and the number ten as representing unity. The two numbers are also of the same essence to me, much in the same way as the periphery and the centre are one. I've seen the number one as representing "spirit", fire, and the number two as "soul" which is passive, matter, duality, the feminine (in terms of yin and yang), water. Spirit (which I understand as being active) and matter combine to form a new creation. Spirit infuses matter to create the number three. Three is also a new one, containing both 1+2, in the same way that a child is the product of both parents and yet also is a separate individual. Like the transformation of opposites into a "higher synthesis". I hope I'm expressing what I mean clearly. So I've always seen the number three as the completion of a cycle, which is why the discussion about the "missing fourth" is so interesting to me. The "superfluous ninth" is a fascinating discussion too, which stimulated much thought. Four, to me, stands for the square and circle. When one stands in the centre, one can turn around in a circle and look to the four dimensions, four points. Four may also represent the four elements manifested in the world (earth, air, fire, and water), with "Essence" being at the centre, and also within the elements. In this sense, the centre, or fifth element, the hub of the wheel of life, is passive. This also relates to personality, and how it is active while essence is passive. I could see those connections made in what I read. I've also seen the number nine as representing reincarnation or rebirth, transformation and transcendence - an idea which seems to be validated in part three, where the nine-pointed mandala system is seen to represent "that real 'completion'", which "NECESSARILY entails a new beginning; the last step is simultaneously the first step into a new process." Also validating the notion of Nine as representing reincarnation is the explanation of point nine - "it is at Point Nine that 'virtual' order erupts into manifest order, and appears AS a 'real' object. It is at Point Nine that the 'extra-ordinary' overflows (in a manner that we can only describe as 'super-flous' - ie, an act of 'grace' or gratuity), thereby becomming 'ordinary' and embodied." This reflects back to the idea of death and resurrection to me, although I'm probably interpreting what I've read in my own terms, which might be quite different from what was really being referred to. The following sentence, "If 'eight' psychologically implies completion of process, Nine is something 'extra'" led me to the conclusion that if death is the completion of *a* process, represented by eight, then Nine as something 'extra' in terms of "situated outside", can represent rebirth. That would fit with the idea that Ten, following Nine, is the final completion of the process of death and rebirth - through the experience of enlightenment one transcends death and rebirth, reaching a final Unity and so returning to the "Source". Anyway, although what I've written may have no relevance at all to the articles, I wanted to share my thoughts with you. I'm looking forward to reading "The Enneagram as Classic 'Double mandala'" when I get more time later today. I can't thank you enough for referring me to these writings. Regards, P. Dear P. - Thank you! [This letter led to a long and fascinating exchange with P., whose insight into a variety of topics is truly remarkable.]

Mar 22, 1999 Hi John, I put a note on my site this week letting my readers know about your featured interview with Katharine Downing Myers. Great issue! Mary Hoerr hoerrs@midplains.net Myers-Briggs® Personality Type on the Web at http://www.mbtypeguide.com/Type/index.html Dear Mary - Thanks! Hope your readers enjoy.

Mar 12, 1999 Dear Editors, The RHETI server has a lot of problems. If you know of a good alternate site, I'd appreciate it. I have a group of people who are interested in taking the FD33, but they don't know their enneagram values. I've never had problems accessing the FD33 or your version of the Kiersey. Do you do any study into how these types correlate in group (or team) structures? Carole Dear Carole - How many people are in your group? Is it a temporary group (a class, perhaps)? Actually this is not our version of the Keirsey test. It's Keirsey's test, at Keirsey's site (to which we have linked from the front page of the Journal). You mention studies into how these types correlate in groups. Do you have a project in mind? In the last issue of our Journal, Michael Huber published his study of the MBTI types of Enneatype-6 clients within an AODA group. Its at - "http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/j3huber.html" John [Editor's note - the server problem at the Enneagram Institute was a temporary one, and has since been fixed. In fact, the entire site has been renovated - and many major improvements made. And this letter led to correspondence about casual research that Carole was doing into group formation, and a very interesting project that she had in mind using the Enneagram.]

Mar 8, 1999 Dear Editors, My name is J.A. I live in the Netherlands (a small country in Europe on the leftside of Germany). I have the following question: On the Riso-Hudson Type Indicator I score 25 for enneagram point 1, 20 for point 3 and 20 for point 5 (these are the three highest scores). Point 1 seems right for me, but so does point 5 and (though less strong) even point 3. But where are the points 4 and 7 which, I understood should be the disintegrated en integrated points? I expected a much higher score on them! The Keirsey Temperament Sorter II indicates that I am a INTP. After reading several characteristics and traits of an INTP, I certainly feel I fit in this type. But doesn't an INTP have to correspond with enneagram point 5 ?!?! I am rather confused about all this. Could you please give me some explanation on what all this says about me? Thanks a lot, J.A. Dear J.A. - You ask "But where are the points 4 and 7 which, I understood should be the disintegrated and integrated points? I expected a much higher score on them!" It doesn't work that way. Those points won't necessarily show up amongst your highest. You also ask, "But doesn't an INTP have to correspond with enneagram point 5 ?!?!" No, it is not required that INTPs score as E5, although the largest concentration of INTPs is in E5. No one should assume that BECAUSE INTPs as a group statistically gravitate toward E5 all INTPs 'should' score as E5s. All we are trying to do in our studies is to UNDERSTAND why, for instance, so many people who are INTPs wind up in E5, and why others who score as INTPs do not, not to LEGISLATE how people should test. Nor do we wish to imply that anything is wrong with an individual who doesn't test in a way that is statistically expected. It is true that INTPs show up in E1 at a 'less than random' rate - in other words, they tend to avoid it. Statistically, the 'J-types' gravitate toward that Enneapoint. But because E1 was you highest score, it does not mean that you are an E1 - as the RHETI has a certain amount of latitude (permitting the subject to choose amongst the top three scores). If you are an E1, however, it would be interesting to know more about your J/P scores on the MBTI. Did you score on the borderline between J and P? Do you TYPICALLY seek perfection? Was your I/E score close?

February 3, 1999 Dear Editors, Thanks for the prompt reply! Nothing definite yet, but I'm thinking about doing some type of correlation/regression study with the MBTI, Watson-Glazer Critical Thinking Assessment, and possibly one or more other common instruments. Scope of my research would involve college students in business or other disciplines using case analysis (written and oral). Some potential hypotheses would be high scoring Ss on the MBTI would be better at number crunching in business cases; high scoring Ns would be better at solution generation; SPs would generate fewer solutions, and on and on. The dean here at [College name omitted] asked me the other day if I knew anything about the Enneagram, and I replied that I'd heard of it but nothing more. So that sparked my curiosity. If you have any ideas, shoot them to me! J.S, DPA Department of Business If any one has any ideas for J.S., please post them at the Community Forum Message Board!

03/10/99 Dear Editors, Nice site. I wish it were easier to access the tests (half the time the server's off line) but otherwise, good job! G.T. (ENTJ/7) Dear G.T. - Thanks. Which test are you having difficulty accessing? If you are able to visit our site, our server is up, and you should have pretty ready access to our experimental test, the FD33. But we can't personally vouch for the servers that offer the Keirsey or RHETI tests that are linked from our front page. Some major improvements have recently been made at the RHETI site, however, and we hear that people are no longer having problems.

February 22, 1999 Dear John, I noticed that many of the questions [on the RHETI] were similar to the ones given on the MBTI. Now I just have to figure out how the RHETI numbers reflect those scores. This is a new and interesting topic for me. I also gave the information you e-mailed to me to a college colleague who also teaches career development classes. He said he would also be interested in finding out more on how all of this works. Now is there a cost? Would there be a fee for my students? Does one join your organization? How does your organization exist? K. [teaches career development courses] Dear K. - Everything at the site is free. But for consultations and special projects we enter into fee for service arrangements on a case by case basis.

02/19/99 Dear Editors, Please let me know how to get the most updated research and articles. This is a great site. DJ

John, Re: Your article, "Keirsey Stratagem". In "I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You", the authors also use different combinations of attitudes and functions to describe different aspects of personality. For example, they say our first impression on others is determined by whether we are IP, IJ, EP, or EJ. They don't come up with different temperaments or types of course. I reviewed the book at http://www.mbtypeguide.com/Type/1998archive.html#11091998ImNotCrazy Just a short note. Your article was interesting. Mary Hoerr hoerrs@midplains.net Myers-Briggs® Personality Type on the Web at http://www.mbtypeguide.com/Type/index.html Mary - Thanks. We weren't aware of that book. Enjoyed your review of it.