Letters to the Editor

About Our Visitors

In the past few months we have been visited by approximately two thousand individuals, from forty nine countries around the world:

Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Mexico, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, New Zealand, Oman, the Philippines, Poland, Portugal, the Russian Federation, South Africa, South Korea, Singapore, Slovenia, the Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Turkey, Trinidad and Tobago, Taiwan, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United States, and Venezuela.

Some have stopped by to sign our guest book, some have downloaded the 'collected papers' for off-line reading, and a few have posted messages and used the chatroom. We have received encouraging words, comments, criticisms and some complaints (about having to 'sign in' at the Delphi chatroom - a fact of life which, alas, is not within our control). Some of the messages that people mailed to us are posted below.

About the Messages and Letters

We generally seem to receive shorter messages directly from the web site itself, as visitors comment on the run, as it were. Others have taken the time to compose longer messages that they have written off-line and then emailed to us. Some of the messages that we have received have developed into active correspondences - a few turning into lengthy two, three, or four-way dialogues. Although we have taken part in a few of these dialogues, some have occured directly between individuals who have met here, without our participation.

There are apparently many ways in which this medium, the internet, creates an experience that differs substantially from the one that individuals have with the printed word. Such differences may re-invent how we come to think of what a 'journal' is. We are already beginning to think of the traditional 'letters to the editor' column as somewhat of an anachronism - and have begun to view this section of the journal as a center for facilitating visitor interaction, with us and with each other.

Some individuals have told us that they do not yet feel comfortable sharing their thoughts publicly on a web-page, and we respect this choice. Emails that are addressed specifically to us will be treated as confidential and remain private. To accommodate individuals who prefer smaller, less public settings, we may operate temporary email 'lists' in the future, small private discussion groups on specific topics or issues. If you have a topic related to the Enneagram and MBTI that you would like to form a discussion group around, either via email list or private chatroom, please let us know. We will compile a list of topics (which will be posted), and the names of interested parties (which will not).

We have decided to permit individuals to choose to have letters to the editor posted using initials as opposed to full names. We know that the use of pseudonyms is routine on the internet. Although we encourage real names, we will not insist on this, except in the case of authors who submit articles. We will also ask individuals who have substantial comments or criticisms, to stand behind what they say by signing their real names, unless the convince us that there is good reason to do otherwise.

Individuals have also begun to explore the 33-question instrument that we have put up on the front page, and have emailed us the results of their explorations. We treat these communications as confidential and will not share individual responses publicly. But if and when we receive an ample quantity of replies, we will share the results of this survey with visitors to our web site. It is interesting that amongst the few individuals whose results we have already gathered, although preference orders generally agree with reported MBTI type, we have already seen individuals who appear to have preference orders that we have described as 'non-traditional' ones (ie, ones that are not permitted by virtue of the assumption that the MBTI imposes) - for instance, a self-reported ENTP with an 'N-T-S-F' preference order. The message board at Delphi has been utilized by only a handful of individuals, although it continues to provide a forum in which quotations can be posted, and short 'papers' posted more or less informally. Individuals can directly email each other from the site, and communicate privately. Similar limited use has been made of the private 'chat room'. As more time becomes available after this Journal has been launched, attention will be given to scheduling small-scale formal events for the chat room - meetings and discussion groups.
The
Letters/Messages:
6/98

Dear Editors,

I am an ENFP who is point 7 on the enneagram. I am fascinated by personality studies and I have had more fun typing my friends and family, although I think they're tired of hearing all the terminology!

M.H.

4/98

Dear Editors,

Very interesting your investigation. I like to know about your research. Thank you.

J.C.

7/98

Dear Editors,

Would like to know more about the work that you guys are doing!

A.S.

7/98

Dear Editors,

I have been studying and using both of these tools and find them interesting and useful. I am convinced there are connections between the two, but I'm not sure if they can be directly correlated. I am an MBTI type INTJ/ISTJ and an Enneagram type 6 with a strong 5 wing.

M.C.


Dear M.C.:

The correlations may not be simple ones, but patterns most definitely do exist. The Richards/Flautt study basically replicated the earlier EM study.

Take your reported type, for example. We have argued that the 'IS', the Jungian 'introverted sensing' type (ISTJ/ISFJ pair) is 'prototypical' of Enneazone 6, since it is the only Jungian pair that has an I-value greater than '1.0' in that zone.

In light of the fact that we and Michael Huber predict that confusions involving the ISTJ and INTJ will occur at points 4 and 6, it is interesting that you identify yourself as an INTJ/ISTJ and a 6. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

John and Pat

4/98

Dear Editors,

I'm doing a thesis on enneagram in business. I especially want to tie in the MBTI relationship. Any idea when the Journal site will be up and running? For your info, I am a 9 and an ESFJ. One big question I have on enneagrams--what's with the wings????

D.S.


Dear S.D.,

We'd love to hear what you have to say on the topic, and are sure that other individuals would also. We've posted an article on the topic of personality type and organizational form, which may interest you. It is entitled 'Toward a Diversity of Psychological Type in Organization'. It is included in a collection of papers we are posting on a site called Personality Type, Organizational Form, and the Structure of Human Consciousness How about sending us an abstract or summary of your work, or submitting an article on the subject?

And the wings. Ah, there's a question! Is there someone out there who'd like to answer that one?

John and Pat

6/98

Dear Editors,

I am currently reading the book by Helen Palmer on Enneagram in the workplace. According to MBTI, I am an ENTJ; I am a 1 in the Enneagram. I've also taken the Real Colors personality test and find these models wonderful assets to understanding myself better.

G.G.


Dear G.G.,

Would like to know more about the color test, and what you think about the Palmer book.

Pat and John

4/98

Dear Walter,

...We are delighted with the work you are doing to integrate the "process" and "personality" aspects of the Enneagram with Jungian Psychology and the MBTI. It seems the more open we are to exploring linkages of this kind the more we roll back the frontier of understanding. Good luck with your new e-journal.

Don and Bonnie Fowke

Hi John,

4/98

This is great! Congratulations! I use the internet at school and thought I would look up your web site. I made copies of this for Mike and will be taking them to him tonight. Take care and good luck.

Cindi Geib

6/98

Dear Editors,

I am an Enneagram 8 and an MBTI ISFJ.

M.E.


Dear M.E.,

Glad to meet you! In the EM study there was only one person who was both an ISFJ and an 8. What do you think it is that attracts you to Enneazone Eight?

Pat and John

7/98

Dear Editors,

I am an INFJ, though on the enneagram I come up 9 and it fits.

M.D.


Dear M.D.,

That's great! Some INFJs, but not many (I-value = "0.6"), show up as Nines. We would like to know more about how you scored on the MBTI. Were your J and P scores close? And were the difference in your N-S scores minimal or relatively large? Have you tried our experimental 'Preference Order Instrument' - you may be a 'non-traditional' MBTI type, what we have called an inFj (which is explained in the preface to that instrument). What attracts you to Nine, do you think?

Pat and John

7/98

Dear Editors,

Great info! Thank you.

J.D.

4/98

Dear Editors,

Never thought of connecting MBTI and Enneagrams before.

H.E.

4/98

Dear Editors,

There is a definite connection between MBTI and the Enneagram, as I see it, and I was looking for confirmation. I've found it!

R.J.

5/98

Dear Editors,

Can't believe it! Did suspect that there must be some link there! I am a 4, INFJ! Now I need to know what it means to be a Belbin ME(SP)in all this too! I must admit that I have always been worried about projecting into questionnaires but I think I can put these cynicisms away!

S.H.


Dear S.H.,

Glad to have been of service. But don't throw it all away, a little skepticism can be healthy.

6/98

Dear Editors,

...thanks, and btw it's a great site!! :-)

Do you find that there are a lot of ISTP 6w5s?

M.F


Dear M.F.,

In the EM study there were no ISTP Sixes. None! The ISTPs, along with the INTPs, as the two (Jungian) 'introverted thinking types' had their highest frequency in enneazone Five (I-value=2.7).

Of course, this does not mean that an ISTP could never test as a Six, or a 6w5, but we assume that such a combination might be rare. We would be interested in the specifics of such an individual's test scores, if you know of one. We would suspect that there would probably be REASONS that an ISTP might test as a Six (or, specifically, as a 6w5) instead of as a Five. Such an individual might have a relatively CLOSE 'T-F scale' score, for instance, and a much greater gap between their S and N scores. Because of a peculiarity in the MBTI testing process (which we are in the process of writing about for a paper that will appear at our site) such an individual could easily still score as an ISTP (instead of ISTJ - ISTJs DO show up more frequently than random in Six). That individual might thus have a comparatively low 'N' preference - which could manifest as the 'suspicion' (or in worst-case scenarios, 'paranoia') that is so typically associated with inferior intuition and with Sixes!

For years now we have been recommending that investigators look more deeply into features such as this, which are typically ignored in conducting studies comparing the Enneagram and MBTI.

For instance, it is now common knowledge that INFPs statistically show up at greater-than-random frequency in only three enneazones: they are most often found in Nine, followed closely by Four, and then by Six. What could account for this kind of distribution? In looking at some INFPs who score as Fours we see wider gaps between their 'N' and 'S' scores than their 'F' and 'T' scores, explaining why they might more aptly be described primarily as 'romantics' (and find themselves sharing the same 'issues' as the introverted intuitives prototypical of Four, who have inferior introverted sensing). On the other hand, amongst the INFPs who are Nines, we see ones who, although they are technically 'N', have a much stronger 'S' component, AND have more extreme 'P' scores. This makes sense because the 'slothfulness' that is associated with Nine as its characteristic deficiency may very well be the result of an exaggerated 'P-ness' - spontaneity (and resistance to closure) at its worst.

Which INFP, then, has a tendency to gravitate toward Six? The ones who have (relatively) high 'F' scores, but who are not high in 'N' or are not extreme 'P' scorers - in other words, persons who are more like the other group who also shows up in enneazone Six at a much higher than random concentration - the ISFJ. One INFP, for instance, who tested with us as a 'Six', had issues around the use of the intuitive function, which aroused the same kind of fear in him that was characteristic of the appearance of 'inferior' intuition in the introverted sensory type (ISFJ/ISTJ).

We hasten to add that since we have not had the opportunity to conduct a statistical study of a large enough group, our speculations on these subtleties remain hypotheses based on anecdotal observations.

Pat and John


M.L.'s reply:

I have talked about your site many times ... and will continue to encourage people to check it out! It's so fascinating to see the correlation between Enneatypes and MB types! I really look forward to reading more of your research.

Anyway the information you have just given me in your e-mail is incredibly fascinating! Thanks! :)

The ISTP in question is definitely ISTP, but not necessarily 6w5. He has never read about types, and has never shown an interest in doing so, but if you were to read an ISTP description, it would 'be' him, he 's so much like the type. Anyway, he also seems like a 6w5 but I think I could also see him as a 9w8. He's just a friend of mine, and hasn't taken either test (enneagram, or MBTI). It's interesting that this is really rare-- but maybe I'm mistaking him for a 5? hmm.

At any rate, thanks a lot! Love your site!

M.L.

7/98

Dear Editors.

This site is awesome! I've been really interested in the correlations and theories. I'm looking forward to reading all these papers.

S.D.